Ronin of the Spirit

Because reality is beautiful.

Illegal immigration

This is NOT a response to Pr3na’s blog about illegal immigration in India. I can’t speak for India (nor will I try to), but I can for the US.
Illegal immigration is fought for several reasons

1. Some people don’t like immigrants, period. In many countries, (America not included) a person may only move to a country if it can be proven they can get a job. They can only get a job if it is legally proven that all efforts have been made to higher a native.

2. People have ideas about law more rooted in childhood fantasies than in real life.

3. People believe it is not fair for people who have not paid into the system to collect socialist benefits (such as social security). In essence they think the collection of government benefits by non citizens is fraud.

4. People believe illegal immigration is analogous to a “gateway drug” and that people who engage in it are more likely to commit other crimes.

5. People believe that the lack of a tracking and screening function places the US in danger.

And here are my responses to the above arguments.

1. “Nepotism is the showing of favoritism toward relatives and friends, based upon that relationship, rather than on an objective evaluation of ability, meritocracy or suitability” As human beings and Americans, we have an obligation to not prefer people who were born here for no other reason than their being born over here.

2. Making a law does not make people obey it. In the USA most car accidents are caused by illegal activity of some kind, yet there are around 17,000 per day. All those laws don’t make people obey laws. People chose to obey laws or not, as the situation warrants. Whether the law is not going 35 MPH in a 25 MPH zone or not crossing a shallow stream in the middle of the desert, (our Rio Grande) people weigh the risks to benefits and do what they want.

3. The statement, “It is not fair for people who have not paid into the system to collect socialist benefits,” is a true statement, made false by its association with the immigration issue. It has absolutely nothing to do with immigration. What about people on disability who never put in what they take out? According the Social Security Admistration 40% of disability cases are fraudulent. Thats more than 10% of the entire US government budget. Since I don’t hear any cries to have this fixed, but I hear about illegal immigration everyday, I can only conclude that the complaints of handout fraud are about who is getting it (immigrants) and not the fraud itself.

4. There had been no proof found that illegal immigration is a “gateway drug” to other crimes.

5. If everyone entering the country must be screened before entry and then tracked afterward, where will it end? Will the children of those immigrants be tracked as well? Since we are a nation of immigrant’s children, it is pretty obvious where it would go.

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May 24, 2008 - Posted by | Government, Politics, Uncategorized | , , ,

4 Comments »

  1. My post is not about immigrants,it is about illegal immigrants.People from all nationalities castes and creeds can commit crimes but the illegal immigrants can get away with crime because there is no way of tracing them. In case of legal immigrants all due diligence is done before granting visa.
    Secondly there is a difference in Indian conditions.When the security instructions are announced in the flights they say that in case of Oxygen deficiency first fix the mask on yourself and then on the child, if any accompanying you.First secure yourself then even your child.My point is that when you have millions in your own country dying of hunger how can you expect to feed other citizens. If it is about human rights, who feeds their neigbours at their child’s cost,and in this case risk your security as well.
    //objective evaluation of ability, meritocracy or suitability//-can be done in case of legal immigrants not illegal immigrants.

    Comment by pr3rna | May 24, 2008 | Reply

  2. Prena, you know much more than I do about India. I would be very foolish to argue with you about it. Perhaps I should have made the beginning more clear. Your blog reminded me of the situation over here, and I wanted to provide a link to your blog because I think more people should read it, not because I was trying to answer the questions in your blog.

    Comment by truthwalker | May 24, 2008 | Reply

  3. First, let us remember the “illegal” part of being an illegal immigrant. Most Americans don’t seem to have problems with legal immigration, however it only seems fair to question the value of any additions to our country who already show no regard for it’s laws upon arrival.

    Second, it seems far too easily forgotten that one must be an U.S. citizen in order to warrant the rights afforded to a citizen. That should be the end of discussion.
    Third, legal immigrants working alongside native born citizens have made this country what it is. We have thrived on the contributions of immigrants and will usually need them, though to varying degrees, throughout most sectors of our economy. The problem is that we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to those who enter illegally, ignore our laws and seek to subvert our culture and national values. We welcome those who follow the rules, learn the English language, and respect our sovereignty. As illegal immigrants, it is not only offensive but also ridiculous to ask for rights, which they have not earned nor are entitled to.

    Let’s secure our borders by building the fence so we have an effective and controlled immigration system at the same time as we enforce our currently existing immigration laws. During this interval we encourage illegals to depart (attrition through enforcement). Once our borders are secured and we have a grip on a functional system of immigration, we move against those illegals that have refused to leave. We should never ever grant amnesty.

    We tried ‘comprehensive immigration reform’ in 1986. We gave amnesty to 3 million illegal aliens in exchange for the government promising to secure the borders, conduct workplace enforcement and enforce immigration law. It didn’t work because the government lied and did nothing other than process the amnesty paperwork. Due to that folly, we now have 20 Million or more illegal aliens here demanding amnesty.

    Don’t you think it is far beyond time that we engage in Comprehensive Immigration ENFORCEMENT rather than Comprehensive Immigration Reform?

    Comment by zeezil | May 24, 2008 | Reply

  4. Allow me to use your comments to point out your stupidity.

    “it only seems fair to question the value of any additions to our country who already show no regard for it’s laws upon arrival.”

    Thats absurd. The purpose of law is to allow time for motive to be discerned. It is legal to kill in self defense, but not in cold blood. Law creates a due process that makes sure the society looks into motive before punishing for the infraction. People who come over here to make a better life and to escape misery and crime on their side of the border have the very best motivation for coming, therefore, their “crime” is not held against them.

    “Second, it seems far too easily forgotten that one must be an U.S. citizen in order to warrant the rights afforded to a citizen. That should be the end of discussion.”

    Since those rights are afforded by the constitution, please tell me where in the constitution is spells out the rules of legal immigration? Oh, right it doesn’t. If fact by argument of legal immigration, the Iroquois Nation (which was functioning republic) has the right to deport all of us for immigrating illegally.

    “The problem is that we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to those who enter illegally, ignore our laws and seek to subvert our culture and national values”

    And know the truth comes out. “our culture and national values” Your real problem with illegal immigrants is that they aren’t like you and don’t value the things you and your friends value. Well, that is a penalty of democracy I suppose. Perhaps you would be more happy in China, where the government works rigorously to make sure that everyone holds the same values.

    “t didn’t work because the government lied and did nothing other than process the amnesty paperwork. Due to that folly, we now have 20 Million or more illegal aliens here demanding amnesty.”

    and

    “let’s secure our borders by building the fence”

    FASCINATING, the government lied to its people and did not follow its own laws. Your response: We should let this same lying government build an enormous fence. Well, I certainly trust a criminal government to build a fence to protect me, it worked so well for the East Germans.

    Comment by truthwalker | May 24, 2008 | Reply


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