Ronin of the Spirit

Because reality is beautiful.

Joshua Harris hurts people.

I’m still working on my Part II post.  In the meantime, please enjoy this brilliant treatise on Joshua Harris’s I Kissed Dating Goodbye

Let’s all be friends

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December 7, 2008 - Posted by | atheism, Self discovery, skepticism, Uncategorized | , , , , , ,

6 Comments »

  1. I will be curious to see what you write here. You might find my blog about Harris’s “kissing dating goodbye” book.

    http://www.ikdg.wordpress.com

    “I Kissed Dating Goodbye: Wisdom or Foolishness?”

    Steve

    Comment by steve240 | December 8, 2008 | Reply

  2. Ok, this seems awfully spammy. But I sort of like the site and I am going to let it go.

    Steve, if you check for comments to your comments, thanks for stopping by. I don’t have any particular muse to pursue on Josh Harris. I read the book in high school, but eventually recovered. I have dear friend who has not. It makes me really sad to see how she can be a guys best friend in the world, then run away as soon as he says he might be interested in her.

    It’s not really fair to say it’s IKDG’s fault, it’s more that she has a desire to not grow up that IKDG allows her to legitimize. When I read this cartoon, it reminded me of the Harris courtship model. I feel that Harris’s work is so absurd that I don’t really need to pick on it, though I have mentioned in my blog before as part of the load of well meaning harm that people in the church heap on other people in the church.n

    Comment by truthwalker | December 8, 2008 | Reply

  3. I appreciate that Harris’s books may not work for everyone. But I am glad he wrote them. I have made Joshua Harris’s books a requirement for my kids…most of whom are teens to adults. The books have helped my kids stay out of hurtful relationships, and have helped them not to be pressured into dead-end premarital relationships or stinky dead-end choices.
    Harris’s books have also backed-up family ethics/guidelines: Esp: Some how stay in School(part time or full time). Finish school. Get training for job skills, etc before you embark on marriage. Also work on yourself and your problems (don’t drag a innocent sweetheart into your stinking mess) before you embark on marriage. Get your head straight. yadayada…esp. get your head straight and your life in order before you start making babies…don’t drag young innocents into hostile situations/relationships, nor your messes either.
    I have read some of Harris’s books myself, and wished I had those books to read when I was younger…the books would’ve helped me to put my decisions in order, and to tell some guys to get lost. My parents didn’t give me very good guidelines. Harris’s books would have provided the anchor I so desperately needed back in the 60’s and afterwards
    My choices ever since I dropped out of college years ago were all off-kilter, and the consequences have been undesirable/unpleasant/frightening.
    Joshua Harris’s books have helped me see how and where I ship-wrecked. I have been picking up the pieces, taking back my innocence and getting back on track as well as I can

    Comment by Rhoda Bryan | December 14, 2008 | Reply

  4. My thought on this book is that it is mostly applicable to teenagers vs. older singles. Harris wrote about his experiences as a teenager. Unfortunately, a lot of singles that were older assumed that what Harris wrote applied to them.

    I liked your comment Truthwalker “it’s more that she has a desire to not grow up that IKDG allows her to legitimize.” I think that is a big problem that happens with what Harris teaches. When “kissing dating goodbye” is taught many times you will see the older singles relating like teenagers vs. more mature singles.

    Comment by steve240 | January 13, 2009 | Reply

  5. I bristle a bit with the idea that it is for good for teens. Harris’s model is a courtship model, and I don’t especially think teens should be courting. Marraige is above all, a partnership, defined primarily by shared finances and shared sexual experience.

    So, until a person can support themselves financially and sexually they have no business getting married. Most of my friends in high school desperately wanted love, affection, sex, intimacy, and commitment. That’s normal and healthy. The problem was, growing up in a very pro IKDG evironment meant the only socially acceptable way to admit that to one self was to transfer those desires into a desire for marriage.

    In short,
    If you tell a teen “You can’t have sex till you’ve courted and married someone.” The response is not “Ok, I need to wait till I am more mature.” It is, “I need to get courting RIGHT NOW.” And that’s not a healthy place for someone who can’t support themselves and doesn’t fully understand their sexuality to be.

    To be fair, I think a parent following IKDG for their kids is much better than just letting their kids do whatever they want, but I think there are better options between IKDG and nothing. Again, thanks for stopping by.

    Comment by truthwalker | January 13, 2009 | Reply

  6. Truthwalker

    What I believe Harris promotes (before one is ready for commitment as he likes to say), is for singles to do things in groups vs. one on one dating. With that said, doing things in groups might make sense for teenagers but not nearly as much sense for older single adults. I have seen situations including in the church Harris is now the Sr. Pastor at where singles in the 30’s were legalistic about having to do things in groups. As you said, “has a desire to not grow up that IKDG allows her to legitimize.”

    I feel similarly that is makes sense for teenagers to avoid “pairing off” especially if they are going through the typical be together for a week and then go steady with someone else like a broken record. On the other hand, more mature singles don’t seem to go through this cycle nearly as much and don’t see the point of trying to limit this. Like with anything, there can be exceptions.

    Harris does take the position that one should only be seeing someone only with the purpose of exploring marriage which he basically is calling courtship. This has resulted in couples feeling pressure to either get married or stop seeing each other before really being ready for marriage. This includes a couple marrying to later find out they weren’t as good of a match as they thought they were.

    As I said before, Harris’s teaching don’t seem to make any allowances for a single man and woman doing things together even as friends. That in itself can be a good learning experience for both involved even if it ends up only being a date of two.

    Similar to what you said about it being better for parents to follow IKDG vs. no supervision, I feel there needs to be a balance. My overall take on IKDG is that it is reactionary especially in how people adopt it vs. responding and correcting problems that may exist with dating.

    I am enjoying our discussion.

    Comment by steve240 | January 14, 2009 | Reply


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